Friday, May 04, 2007

F*** 'em up, Rino

I adore this headline: Liverpool are an outdated long-ball side, says Gattuso. Money quote:

"I feel there is a noticeable difference in talent between Manchester United and Liverpool and that we have beaten the better side of the two," he said. "United have far more technical players, who are quick and able to do things on the ball. Liverpool do not have those individuals. What they have is a way of playing as a team. They are like an Italian team of 10 years ago. All they try to do is defend together, with everybody behind the ball and just one striker. Every ball is a long ball."

70 comments:

LD said...

I don't get it, Michael. Your distaste for the English game simply can't be so great that you'd honestly support a reactionary, near-fascist oligargh-owned club that shouldn't have even been in the tournament in the first place.

I actually think Gattuso's off on a lot in that article. Unless he's just a guy who can't tell the difference between the
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and the number 10.

Let's look at the numbers:

In 34 Serie A matches this year, Milan have scored 54 goals. (Consider, Serie A is seriously diluted this year with Juve removed). That's a rate of 1.588 goals per game.

In 36 Premiership matches this year, Liverpool have scored 55 goals. That's a rate of 1.527.

They score at pretty much the same rate domestically, though I'd argue the Premiership is a better league this year than Serie A.

In the Champions' League, the numbers also bear out.

Milan have scored 18 CL goals this year, exactly a rate of 1.5 per game, placing them 9th in the tournament.

Liverpool have scored 22 CL goals this year. That's a 1.83 goals per game average - third in the tournament.

Only Man U have scored more (raw numbers) goals in the Champions' League - and that's directly attributable to the 7 scored on a Roma defense that completely gave up.

Liverpool have committed the fewest fouls per game of any of the quarterfinalists and are whistled 1.5 fewer times per match than Milan.

Milan and Liverpool have conceded exactly the same number of goals.

Yes, Milan take more shots and hold possession longer. Nobody doubts that Liverpool play the counter more, but it's also wrong to say that Liverpool take the air out of the ball. They scored more per game than all but 2 teams in the entire tournament. They've scored three times in a game more than the've been kept clean.

It's odd - one of the things I like best about European soccer is how players are more open with their actual thoughts (due to, I'd guess, an imposing press). But I also don't see why Gattuso is providing bulletin board material. One would think after his halftime smirk in '05, he'd know better than to fire up the Pool.

Of course, none of this is to say that Gattuso's not a great player. Of course, he is. Arguably, it's his history at the Old Firm that gives him an edge in toughness...

LD said...

Blogger! Quit eating my links!

Here's the link to the "Number 4" reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UEFA_Champions_League_Final

Michael said...

I'm not seeing what you're trying to say with the number 4 reference.

As for the goal numbers:

1. Milan have been out of sorts for much of this year because they have struggled mightily to replace Sheva. Gilardino and Inzaghi have had major problems trying to score goals. It's not that Milan haven't been trying to score; it's that they've been unable to do so until hitting their stride in February and March.

Liverpool do score goals at a reasonable rate, but they do so as parasites. They typically wait for opponents to make efforts to score and then they pounce. When Liverpool play a similar team like Chelsea, nothing happens. I will always respect a team that plays like Milan over a team that plays like Liverpool, regardless of the aggregate number of goals scored.

Watch the '05 Final again if you don't believe me. Milan came right out attacking from the start and demolished Liverpool for a half. Finally forced to come out and play, Liverpool miraculously scored three and then promptly went back into their shell and created nothing for the rest of the game. They were quite happy to play for penalties, just like they were on Tuesday. I hate teams like that.

2. Just look at the technical skill levels of the two teams if you need further confirmation of why I'm rooting for Milan. Gerrard is the only Pool player who can do anything with the ball at his feet. (OK, Riise might be a second.) Any team that starts Boudewijn Zenden in its two most important games of the year AND THEN RUNS THEIR OFFENSE THROUGH HIM is short on talent.

3. As for the shot at Berlusconi, I don't like him very much, but Milan's fans have typically been working class and left-wing. Liverpool's fans got their country's teams banned from Europe for five years and were recently written up in the press for throwing excrement at United fans and shaking an ambulance carrying Alan Smith after his broken leg. Forgive me if I don't root for the Scousers.

Gattuso's time with Rangers is inexplicable to me, except for the fact that it confirms that Dick Advocaat is an idiot because he played Rino as a right back. Anyway, Gerrard talked shit about Gattuso and now Rino is going to pay him back.

LD said...

Here's what I mean: When Gattuso says "10 years ago", he's unstitching time. It was just 4 years ago in the CL final that he was a member of the Milan lineup that (along with Juventus) put on a display of football far uglier and more boring than anything I've seen out of Liverpool this year.

I'll grant you that it's fair and reasonable to root against teams that run the counter. But Liverpool are actually quite good at it. And they score frequently doing it. If anything, any propensity by Milan to push the ball forward should make for a very interesting, up and down match. Milan push, Liverpool counter. Disliking Liverpool's style when they play Chelsea is one thing - it's a poor conflict of styles, resulting in a bad match for the viewers - but when Liverpool's played teams that push forward, the matches can turn out great.

Now, I take some larger issue with the idea that only Gerrard and maybe Riise have skill (after all, "doing something with his feet" sounds more like a freestyle juggling competition than the CL Final). If you want to look solely at the second half of the Chelsea tie, maybe that's what you might see, but it's a pretty small sample size, isn't it? Steve Finnan was the best defender in the Premiership by the Actim stats. Pepe Reina was the third best ranked keeper. Mascherano has had moments of genius, though he's only been with the club 3 months and hasn't gelled fully. I'd throw in Xabi Alonso too as someone with world-class talent, as has been seen in the Champions' League in years past. There's no attacker with the ability of Kaka, but how many of them are there in the entire world? And since Liverpool's strategy doesn't rely on anyone on the front line to necessarily create their own shots, I don't think a massive skill gap (which I don't think actually exists) will cause Liverpool that much of a problem.

One other thing. I think it's probably unfair to criticize Liverpool for Heysel 22 years later. Zenden, the oldest player in Liverpool's lineup, was but 8 years old when it happened. Of course Liverpool fans have had some recent instances of embarrassment, but the same can be said with equal virulence for Milan. In the last three years, Liverpool hasn't played any matches in front of empty crowds. Liverpool's CL matches have all been played to completion. Milan cannot say the same. And Liverpool fans are every bit as working-class as Milan fans. Everton is to Inter as Liverpool is to Milan. The difference is that Milan is owned by a poor-man's Rupert Murdoch reactionary propagandist, while Liverpool is owned by two Americans - whose presence can only promote the sport over here. (and yeah, I know Hicks is a Bush guy, but he's not in same ballpark as Berlusconi).

On an entirely different note, when looking at the Heysel thing, I looked at the rosters for the two teams. There is a significant difference in age/experience between Liverpool and Milan. For Liverpool, only two players that played more than a minute in the tie with Chelsea were over the age of 30 - Finnan and Zenden (Robbie Fowler came on for PKs at the end of the second match). In contrast, Milan played 11 players over the age of 30 (or who turn 30 this month) in the Man U tie. The average birthday of Milan's starters in the semifinals was June 1976. The average birthday of Liverpool's starters in the semifinals was June 1980. If it's experience that hoists trophies, Milan should have an advantage. If it's youthful legs that come through after a long, fixture-clogged season, then Liverpool might have an advantage.

Michael said...

1. Milan played behind closed doors because of something that Inter's fans did. I don't see how you blame them for that.

I'll grant you that bringing up Heysel is tenuous, but my impression (and this is admittedly a total, out-of-my-ass generalization) is that Liverpool has a disproporionate number of thugs (hence their treatment of Smudger [or Pepe Reina's car]; other EPL fans have a point when they sing about Scousers), only they are policed better than they were before.

2. I blame Juve for that dreadful '03 final. Milan made a number of attempts to score, especially in the first half when they dominated play, and then ran out of steam. It wasn't Milan's finest moment, but it was primarily a function of Juve's strategy. Since then, Milan have been involved in some really exciting CL games. And the bottom line is that there is no way on earth that Liverpool could produce the football that Milan did on Wednesday.

I agree that the Final will be great, but that's primarily because of Milan. Milan could play anyone in the final and the result would be attractive (except for a crap team like Celtic that puts everyone behind the ball). Liverpool will look good against opponents with balls and terrible against similarly cowardly teams like Chelsea. (Valencia/Liverpool would be another likely snorefest.)

I might give you Finnan as a skilled player. I'm not giving you Reina (only a keeper and a dodgy one at that against Barca in the first leg), Mascherano (good at what he does, but teams don't get their skill from the defensive midfield spot), or Xabi Alonso (has never really done it for me; just not on the level of Iniesta or Cesc and Aragones agrees with me).

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